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	<title>Comments on: WTF, Wordpress?</title>
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	<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html</link>
	<description>Life in the Country</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Upgrade</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14507</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookmarks about Upgrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 09:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14507</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 3 members originally found by grumpygrim on 2008-07-23  WTF, Wordpress?  http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html - bookmarked by 2 members originally found by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] - bookmarked by 3 members originally found by grumpygrim on 2008-07-23  WTF, Wordpress?  <a href="http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html</a> - bookmarked by 2 members originally found by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Otto</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14447</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14447</guid>
		<description>Gianluca: What are you talking about? WordPress.com has NO ads of any sort. Period. They don't even allow bloggers to put in their OWN advertising.

Regarding the rest: On the whole, WordPress is very simple to use. The complex parts come when you want to customize it. Upgrading works totally brilliantly smoothly for 95% of cases. The other 5% are 4.9% people having theme or plugin related issues, and 0.1% who experience an actual bug or something similar.

So yes, you do need to be a webmaster when you have to solve problems with a website. You also need to be a webmaster if you're going to use plugins, customize a theme, or generally fool around with it above and beyond the most basic install+use scenario. That's sort of my point there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gianluca: What are you talking about? WordPress.com has NO ads of any sort. Period. They don&#8217;t even allow bloggers to put in their OWN advertising.</p>
<p>Regarding the rest: On the whole, WordPress is very simple to use. The complex parts come when you want to customize it. Upgrading works totally brilliantly smoothly for 95% of cases. The other 5% are 4.9% people having theme or plugin related issues, and 0.1% who experience an actual bug or something similar.</p>
<p>So yes, you do need to be a webmaster when you have to solve problems with a website. You also need to be a webmaster if you&#8217;re going to use plugins, customize a theme, or generally fool around with it above and beyond the most basic install+use scenario. That&#8217;s sort of my point there.</p>
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		<title>By: Gianluca</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14313</link>
		<dc:creator>Gianluca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14313</guid>
		<description>In my opinion what you said makes sense. It seems blogging platforms are nowadays eager to "compete". For wordpress this means doing a new release every three months and pushing the new versions: you are forced to upgrade because of some security issues or because they will nag you anyway everytime you use the dashboard "upgrade to the new version".
In my opinion this is not the right way to "compete" for wordpress, a new version every 3 months with no automatic/easy upgrade feature is already a pain in the ass, as it is. Then if the release is also broken ...

As every reputable software they should just deploy a "stable" version, where they release just security patches for, and keep it going at least 12-18 months, and a "cutting-edge" version for people who like to have the latest feature.
WP 2.5 with all the problems in the composing windows, 2.6 with permalinks problem, and the like are NOT stable and mature by any means, indeed.

What OTTO said make sense anyway, you have to understand wordpress is OPEN SOURCE ... so the wordpress.org forums are filled with volounteers. If wordpress coders makes money they make it trough auttomatic (wordpress.com), they of course don't make money from the software you freely download and install on your own server, so you can't complain about that "free support" or the money they make. If you want real support on an opensource project you just hire someone and pay for it.

Also OPEN SOURCE means that if someone is willing to create and mantain a project called LEGACYPRESS starting from a 2.3 version where he does just security fixes and minor improvements, I guess he's free to do so and plan his schedule so, ie, makes a new major legacypress release every 18months, i don't know.

I also don't agree with OTTO on some other stuff: for example wordpress.com is not an option for many people, unless you like your site to be STUFFED of google adsense commercials run by automatic, that logged-in people won't see EVEN IF YOU PAY MONEY.
To verify my claim try install a clean web browser like Opera (or just clean your cookies in your current browser and logout from wordpress.com), open a search engine and search some page you know is on wordpress.com, click the link from the search engine and you will see your blog completely different.
That's how real people see your blog, horribly stuffed with advertising! Maybe from firms you hate. Example: you have a green blog here you advocate against coal power, i don't know, and you see an advertising where some energy company claims coal is clean. You have a wine blog, and you see advertising about canned synthetic wine&amp;soda, that sort of thing. Wordpress.com is orrible in the way that you haven't even got the option to remove this ads if you pay.

So at the end of the day if you wan't to blog, but you don't want the hassle of running a software, i agree with Otto except for the wordpress.com part ... I suggest blogger.com if you want it for free, or typepad.com if you wanna pay a fee and get real support. Both allows to migrate your wordpress blog and run your own domain name (on blogger.com for free).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion what you said makes sense. It seems blogging platforms are nowadays eager to &#8220;compete&#8221;. For wordpress this means doing a new release every three months and pushing the new versions: you are forced to upgrade because of some security issues or because they will nag you anyway everytime you use the dashboard &#8220;upgrade to the new version&#8221;.<br />
In my opinion this is not the right way to &#8220;compete&#8221; for wordpress, a new version every 3 months with no automatic/easy upgrade feature is already a pain in the ass, as it is. Then if the release is also broken &#8230;</p>
<p>As every reputable software they should just deploy a &#8220;stable&#8221; version, where they release just security patches for, and keep it going at least 12-18 months, and a &#8220;cutting-edge&#8221; version for people who like to have the latest feature.<br />
WP 2.5 with all the problems in the composing windows, 2.6 with permalinks problem, and the like are NOT stable and mature by any means, indeed.</p>
<p>What OTTO said make sense anyway, you have to understand wordpress is OPEN SOURCE &#8230; so the wordpress.org forums are filled with volounteers. If wordpress coders makes money they make it trough auttomatic (wordpress.com), they of course don&#8217;t make money from the software you freely download and install on your own server, so you can&#8217;t complain about that &#8220;free support&#8221; or the money they make. If you want real support on an opensource project you just hire someone and pay for it.</p>
<p>Also OPEN SOURCE means that if someone is willing to create and mantain a project called LEGACYPRESS starting from a 2.3 version where he does just security fixes and minor improvements, I guess he&#8217;s free to do so and plan his schedule so, ie, makes a new major legacypress release every 18months, i don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t agree with OTTO on some other stuff: for example wordpress.com is not an option for many people, unless you like your site to be STUFFED of google adsense commercials run by automatic, that logged-in people won&#8217;t see EVEN IF YOU PAY MONEY.<br />
To verify my claim try install a clean web browser like Opera (or just clean your cookies in your current browser and logout from wordpress.com), open a search engine and search some page you know is on wordpress.com, click the link from the search engine and you will see your blog completely different.<br />
That&#8217;s how real people see your blog, horribly stuffed with advertising! Maybe from firms you hate. Example: you have a green blog here you advocate against coal power, i don&#8217;t know, and you see an advertising where some energy company claims coal is clean. You have a wine blog, and you see advertising about canned synthetic wine&amp;soda, that sort of thing. Wordpress.com is orrible in the way that you haven&#8217;t even got the option to remove this ads if you pay.</p>
<p>So at the end of the day if you wan&#8217;t to blog, but you don&#8217;t want the hassle of running a software, i agree with Otto except for the wordpress.com part &#8230; I suggest blogger.com if you want it for free, or typepad.com if you wanna pay a fee and get real support. Both allows to migrate your wordpress blog and run your own domain name (on blogger.com for free).</p>
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		<title>By: Where did WordPress go wrong? &#124; Sephy's Platzish</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14309</link>
		<dc:creator>Where did WordPress go wrong? &#124; Sephy's Platzish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14309</guid>
		<description>[...] WTF, WordPress? - Snoskred&#8217;s first post about the new version. She also suggests an alternative to WordPress in the post. Definitely worth reading. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WTF, WordPress? - Snoskred&#8217;s first post about the new version. She also suggests an alternative to WordPress in the post. Definitely worth reading. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: teeni</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14280</link>
		<dc:creator>teeni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14280</guid>
		<description>@Otto - I appreciate that you were able to say all of that without sounding condescending and I think that was the real issue I had with what I was seeing, in particular a comment saying that people who don't know how to code shouldn't be on the internet - that to me was just was uncalled for because the internet should be available to all.  But again, I understand the frustration behind the comment.  I do however, stand by my thinking that there is no reason to be rude to users of the product whether they are paying for it or not.  I really have been loving WordPress.  I am learning there is a lot more to WordPress than I thought and my thinking of it as just a blogging application and not a website was flawed.  I see that now, thank you. However, I actually DO have my own domain name and someone else to deal with the running of the site, but I'd like to learn more.  I'm just not so readily inclined to want to ask valid questions or seek help when I think I see people being treated that way.  In other news, I am sorry that the support people are not paid because I think  most of them deserve compensation, even the ones who get snippy sometimes because I know they aren't always that way.  Hopefully this whole situation improves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Otto - I appreciate that you were able to say all of that without sounding condescending and I think that was the real issue I had with what I was seeing, in particular a comment saying that people who don&#8217;t know how to code shouldn&#8217;t be on the internet - that to me was just was uncalled for because the internet should be available to all.  But again, I understand the frustration behind the comment.  I do however, stand by my thinking that there is no reason to be rude to users of the product whether they are paying for it or not.  I really have been loving WordPress.  I am learning there is a lot more to WordPress than I thought and my thinking of it as just a blogging application and not a website was flawed.  I see that now, thank you. However, I actually DO have my own domain name and someone else to deal with the running of the site, but I&#8217;d like to learn more.  I&#8217;m just not so readily inclined to want to ask valid questions or seek help when I think I see people being treated that way.  In other news, I am sorry that the support people are not paid because I think  most of them deserve compensation, even the ones who get snippy sometimes because I know they aren&#8217;t always that way.  Hopefully this whole situation improves.</p>
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		<title>By: Wordpress 2.6 Warning - DO NOT upgrade. &#124; Snoskred - Life in the Country</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14275</link>
		<dc:creator>Wordpress 2.6 Warning - DO NOT upgrade. &#124; Snoskred - Life in the Country</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14275</guid>
		<description>[...] I mentioned a somewhat serious problem with permalinks in the just released 2.6 version of Wordpress. Now there is a new issue which is an even bigger [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I mentioned a somewhat serious problem with permalinks in the just released 2.6 version of Wordpress. Now there is a new issue which is an even bigger [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Snoskred</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14256</link>
		<dc:creator>Snoskred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14256</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments all, I appreciate them. I'd like to comment on a couple of points. First, about being a webmaster.

People who install wordpress are told before they click the download button on the wordpress.org site - "WordPress is a state-of-the-art publishing platform with a focus on aesthetics, web standards, and usability. WordPress is both free and priceless at the same time.

More simply, WordPress is what you use when you want to work with your blogging software, not fight it.

New to blogging? Learn more about WordPress, then follow the three easy steps below to start blogging in minutes. Or, for the ultimate in ease of use, get a free blog on WordPress.com."

I don't think this is true anymore. Since 2.5, a lot of people have been fighting it. It doesn't say there that you need to be a webmaster or have any special skills in order to blog. It is selling simplicity, ease of use, and you can start blogging quickly. Nowhere there does it say "you will have to constantly upgrade this software, so if you're not technical Wordpress is not for you". 

So until Wordpress can be honest with people about what it really is, the support forums are going to have users who think they can install wordpress and then blog easily and simply. And those users are going to turn up looking for help when it turns out that it isn't easy and simple. And when those users turn up looking for help, they're not going to be real thrilled to find sarcasm and even in some cases outright abuse.

Secondly, I think the relationship between people and their blogging software is a lot more important than people admit. After all in some cases blogging is how people are earning their money. People have placed trust in Wordpress when they clicked that download button - trust that it will work for them, trust that they will be able to do what they need to do, trust that when they need support they will be able to find it in the support forums - Wordpress is not doing the right thing with that trust. 

Otto, you are doing an amazing job, especially when you say you're not being paid. I cannot believe how unfair that is, though. My understanding is that Wordpress are earning quite a bit of cash. They should be giving some of it to people like you. Without you, most of those support threads would have no intelligent answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments all, I appreciate them. I&#8217;d like to comment on a couple of points. First, about being a webmaster.</p>
<p>People who install wordpress are told before they click the download button on the wordpress.org site - &#8220;WordPress is a state-of-the-art publishing platform with a focus on aesthetics, web standards, and usability. WordPress is both free and priceless at the same time.</p>
<p>More simply, WordPress is what you use when you want to work with your blogging software, not fight it.</p>
<p>New to blogging? Learn more about WordPress, then follow the three easy steps below to start blogging in minutes. Or, for the ultimate in ease of use, get a free blog on WordPress.com.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is true anymore. Since 2.5, a lot of people have been fighting it. It doesn&#8217;t say there that you need to be a webmaster or have any special skills in order to blog. It is selling simplicity, ease of use, and you can start blogging quickly. Nowhere there does it say &#8220;you will have to constantly upgrade this software, so if you&#8217;re not technical Wordpress is not for you&#8221;. </p>
<p>So until Wordpress can be honest with people about what it really is, the support forums are going to have users who think they can install wordpress and then blog easily and simply. And those users are going to turn up looking for help when it turns out that it isn&#8217;t easy and simple. And when those users turn up looking for help, they&#8217;re not going to be real thrilled to find sarcasm and even in some cases outright abuse.</p>
<p>Secondly, I think the relationship between people and their blogging software is a lot more important than people admit. After all in some cases blogging is how people are earning their money. People have placed trust in Wordpress when they clicked that download button - trust that it will work for them, trust that they will be able to do what they need to do, trust that when they need support they will be able to find it in the support forums - Wordpress is not doing the right thing with that trust. </p>
<p>Otto, you are doing an amazing job, especially when you say you&#8217;re not being paid. I cannot believe how unfair that is, though. My understanding is that Wordpress are earning quite a bit of cash. They should be giving some of it to people like you. Without you, most of those support threads would have no intelligent answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Barden</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14255</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Barden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14255</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the mention. :) To follow up on the comment from teeni and draw a comparison, my blog is specifically aimed at people who don't already know what I'm talking about, so I write in plain English and avoid jargon as much as possible. I carry the same philosophy over to Injader, both when coding it and supporting it.

In my view, coders are not there to make people feel like they need to be technically minded too, we are here to make life easier for everyone - whether you're technical or not. For instance, instead of saying "go edit your config file", I aim to provide settings that can be accessed within your browser.

I'm always looking for ways to improve Injader - comments are certainly welcome if you decide to give it a try. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the mention. <img src='http://www.snoskred.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> To follow up on the comment from teeni and draw a comparison, my blog is specifically aimed at people who don&#8217;t already know what I&#8217;m talking about, so I write in plain English and avoid jargon as much as possible. I carry the same philosophy over to Injader, both when coding it and supporting it.</p>
<p>In my view, coders are not there to make people feel like they need to be technically minded too, we are here to make life easier for everyone - whether you&#8217;re technical or not. For instance, instead of saying &#8220;go edit your config file&#8221;, I aim to provide settings that can be accessed within your browser.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m always looking for ways to improve Injader - comments are certainly welcome if you decide to give it a try. <img src='http://www.snoskred.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Frogdancer</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14254</link>
		<dc:creator>Frogdancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14254</guid>
		<description>Funny. I was thinking about sending you an email asking if there was any further news about whether it was safe to upgrade yet. (I've been having issues with uploading photos when I do it at home. At work it's fine. Annoying....)
You've just answered my question!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny. I was thinking about sending you an email asking if there was any further news about whether it was safe to upgrade yet. (I&#8217;ve been having issues with uploading photos when I do it at home. At work it&#8217;s fine. Annoying&#8230;.)<br />
You&#8217;ve just answered my question!</p>
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		<title>By: Otto</title>
		<link>http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html/comment-page-1#comment-14253</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snoskred.org/2008/07/wtf-wordpress.html#comment-14253</guid>
		<description>@Teeni: I'm truly sorry, but no, you're not right.

The notion that "I'm a user of your software and so I'm entitled to being treated well" is flawed to begin with. If you were paying for your support, then you're entitled. But I see a lot of people basically saying "I use your free software, I think it sucks, so by extension you suck, and you should treat me well even though I'm a complete jerkoff".. That's the way I read that sort of thing now. ;)

Here's the thing: I have no problem telling people to stop using WordPress if it does not fit their needs. Because the fact of the matter is that the users did NOT make WordPress what it is. The developers did. The people who write the code did. WordPress would exist even without little-old-users using it because the users aren't the ones creating it.

Running a copy of WordPress on your own hosting is not "blogging". It is "running a website" or "being a webmaster". Until people realize this fact and accept it, then there's simply always going to be friction. Running a website is more than just writing posts. Sorry, fact of life. "Webmaster" is an *actual job* at most companies. People get paid for it. And you think it's supposed to be easy?

If somebody wants to "blog" instead of run their own site, then I highly recommend alternative solutions. Use WordPress.com sites instead. You can still get your own domain name going, even get it directly through them at good prices ($10 or so, they work through GoDaddy I think). All the fun of blogging, none of the hassles of running a website. Costs are probably lower too, considering normal hosting fees. Or heck, switch to blogger.com or one of the other myriad services. WordPress may not be right for everybody and it's certainly not right for every web application. Yes, I like it, but you are not me and might have different needs. People are different.

Now, understand that I'm not trying to be rude or insulting here. I very rarely try to do that on the support forums as well. But such is the nature of text, what I see as a frank matter-of-fact statement can come across as rude. I have been on the 'nets a long, long time, and am well aware of this fact, so anything I read like that, I take with a grain of salt. A lot of people don't quite get that yet. Especially newbie bloggers who can't even figure out how to search google for a solution to their problem (grumble).

@Snoskred: The people who help the most on the support forums don't get paid. Me included. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Teeni: I&#8217;m truly sorry, but no, you&#8217;re not right.</p>
<p>The notion that &#8220;I&#8217;m a user of your software and so I&#8217;m entitled to being treated well&#8221; is flawed to begin with. If you were paying for your support, then you&#8217;re entitled. But I see a lot of people basically saying &#8220;I use your free software, I think it sucks, so by extension you suck, and you should treat me well even though I&#8217;m a complete jerkoff&#8221;.. That&#8217;s the way I read that sort of thing now. <img src='http://www.snoskred.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Here&#8217;s the thing: I have no problem telling people to stop using WordPress if it does not fit their needs. Because the fact of the matter is that the users did NOT make WordPress what it is. The developers did. The people who write the code did. WordPress would exist even without little-old-users using it because the users aren&#8217;t the ones creating it.</p>
<p>Running a copy of WordPress on your own hosting is not &#8220;blogging&#8221;. It is &#8220;running a website&#8221; or &#8220;being a webmaster&#8221;. Until people realize this fact and accept it, then there&#8217;s simply always going to be friction. Running a website is more than just writing posts. Sorry, fact of life. &#8220;Webmaster&#8221; is an *actual job* at most companies. People get paid for it. And you think it&#8217;s supposed to be easy?</p>
<p>If somebody wants to &#8220;blog&#8221; instead of run their own site, then I highly recommend alternative solutions. Use WordPress.com sites instead. You can still get your own domain name going, even get it directly through them at good prices ($10 or so, they work through GoDaddy I think). All the fun of blogging, none of the hassles of running a website. Costs are probably lower too, considering normal hosting fees. Or heck, switch to blogger.com or one of the other myriad services. WordPress may not be right for everybody and it&#8217;s certainly not right for every web application. Yes, I like it, but you are not me and might have different needs. People are different.</p>
<p>Now, understand that I&#8217;m not trying to be rude or insulting here. I very rarely try to do that on the support forums as well. But such is the nature of text, what I see as a frank matter-of-fact statement can come across as rude. I have been on the &#8216;nets a long, long time, and am well aware of this fact, so anything I read like that, I take with a grain of salt. A lot of people don&#8217;t quite get that yet. Especially newbie bloggers who can&#8217;t even figure out how to search google for a solution to their problem (grumble).</p>
<p>@Snoskred: The people who help the most on the support forums don&#8217;t get paid. Me included. <img src='http://www.snoskred.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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